“Peter Gabriel got all the credibility, and I got the money – ha!” Phil Collins on his role as Genesis’ class clown and their only contact with the outside world
In 2015 Phil Collins announced his return from retirement. Naturally that sparked an explosion of speculation on whether Genesis might return too. The following year, with his eight solo albums being reissued and a memoir on the way, Collins happily chatted to Prog about his highs and lows with the band, and his thoughts on a reunion, which finally took place in 2021-22.
Like most rock musicians of a certain vintage, Phil Collins can’t escape the past – or his own image. Hanging on the wall in a corridor of Warner Music’s London office is a portrait of a younger Collins, frowning quizzically into the camera lens. Today, the 65-year-old is walking slowly with a stick due to a broken bone in his foot. But his mind is as quick as ever.
“This is for Prog magazine, right?” he asks cheerily, easing himself into a sturdy chair, stick nearby – so he can whack your correspondent if he asks too many questions about Nursery Cryme, perhaps?
Officially Collins is here to discuss his reissued 1982 and 1996 solo albums, Hello, I Must Be Going and Dance Into The Light. But he’ll talk about anything. The old stuff, the not so old stuff, Genesis, Peter Gabriel and his own 150-million-selling solo career. To Phil Collins it’s all music, and his music has never fitted into a box.
Yes. But around that same time I wrote a thing that later became Lilywhite Lilith on The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway. I also had a bit of something that later became Why Should I Lend You Mine (When You’ve Broken Yours Off Already) for [jazz rock side project] Brand X. It’s funny how those bits only surfaced in later life.
Was it hard to break Genesis’ Peter Gabriel-Tony Banks-Mike Rutherford songwriting clique?
The spirit of Genesis was Tony, Mike and Peter. I didn’t regard myself as a songwriter then. But there were things in Genesis I was highly influential in. My strength was arranging.
What inspired that?
I was very into the first line-up of Yes – the one with Peter Banks. I remember loving the way they took other people’s songs – Something’s Coming, Every Little Thing – and did something different. I thought, “That’s something I could do,” so I brought that influence into Genesis.
Not really. But I was this interesting square peg in a round hole. I was the joker, the class clown at the back. But I was also the only person who played with other people! I really was Genesis’ only contact with the outside world.
How did that help the band?
It was through me dallying around and playing with other people that I introduced them to [producers] David Hentschel and later Hugh Padgham. I was always the one searching around and looking outside the bubble. But they encouraged it. I read something in Mike’s book [his autobiography, The Living Years], where he wrote, “If Phil had an idea, you listened…” I was very touched by that.
Honestly. I just thought, “Oh, Mike’s doing a book…” But when I realised I was in it, I thought I’d better see what he said. So it was illuminating to read that line. I never thought he’d say something like that.
Was there anything in it that you didn’t particularly like?
I had no issue with it at all. Tony Banks had a few, but I’ve no idea what they were – probably stuff going back to when they were at school together. Steve Hackett has talked in the past about how he and I were the junior partners in Genesis.
Standing back and watching the three old school friends having an argument?
Yes! “You stole my protractor!” That was a very good description of it.
How much did you contribute to writing the first songs you sang with Genesis, For Absent Friends and More Fool Me?
Yeah, they let me sing a couple – “Keep Phil happy – throw him a bone!” Me and Steve wrote most of For Absent Friends. More Fool Me? … God, I had completely forgotten about More Fool Me. I think I wrote some of the lyric but it was mostly a Mike song. I honestly didn’t consider myself a songwriter until [1981 debut solo album] Face Value. That’s when I earned my stripes.
What do you think of the songs that you co-wrote for Genesis before then?
Wot Gorilla on Wind & Wuthering was my baby, and Los Endos on A Trick Of The Tail. Again, it was about ideas and arrangements. I’d heard the Santana album Borboletta, and there’s a tune on it called Promise Of A Fisherman. If you’ve got it on your iPod, have a listen and think of Los Endos. That’s where it came from – I was more involved in that.
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